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Planet Apocalypse: A little wishlist for PA2
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massimocorsi
13 Posts
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July 8, 2020 - 11:06 am

I heard that PA2 is in the works, so I’d like to share with you my little wishlist for the upcoming expansions/revisions…

(1) In the rulebook, please include a realistic example of the Hell Time battle!
I learned to play the game by reading the rulebook. The description of the Hell Time is followed by an example where the heroes never help each other when fighting Baphomet. With this example in mind, my gaming group started playing Planet Apocalypse with the conviction that asking for help when attacking was a last resort solution (it costs 1 courage to the helping hero, after all) and that each had to be able to roll a couple of dice capable overcoming the lord’s toughness before entering Hell Time. Needless to say, we were soundly defeated many times before realizing the advantage of helping each other when fighting the demon lord. I admit that there is a life lesson in what we went through, but another gaming group may decide to quit the game after biting the dust for the third time in a row. So, please, clearly explain in the rulebook how a lord battle is supposed to be fought.

(2) What about a different background for the Doomgate map?
All the owners of Planet Apocalypse know it well: the fields and the buildings on the Doomgate map are identical to those on the Invasion map. So here we have a core game box with two identical maps, which in my opinion is a bit underwhelming. Of course, playing the Doomgate map feels very different from playing the Invasion map, but come on… This is the game with the first player marker depicting a Sandy-faced gryllus, whith cool plastic markers for everything, with “bling” everywhere! Using the same background for the two maps in the core box seems to me a step in the opposite direction!

(3) What about map-specific demons?
My gaming group regularly plays Chtulhu Wars and Glorantha the Gods War. In the former case, each new map comes with a couple of map-specific monsters, while in the latter case we use the dragons, the chaos monsters and the cosmic monsters to change the overall “feel” of the map. In Planet Apocalypse, each map offers a very different experience in terms of gameplay, but the possibility of using all lords on all maps, on the one hand gives the game an incredible replayability, but on the other hand makes the maps lose flavor. When advancing from the Invasion map to the Doomgate map, my fellow players immediately asked “where are the new monsters”? When I heard this complaint, well knowing that PA2 was in the works, I tried to find a way of introducing map-specific demons without turning upside-down the game, and I come out with this idea:
(a) The map-specific demon of a certain map may be a single figure or a group of figures. Its purpose is adding flavour to the map and at the same time reinforcing the overall feel of the map in terms of gameplay. For example, the map demons of the Invasion map may be rank and file troops which have the same armor of the limbo minions, but are treated as demons for all other purposes. As another example, the map demons of the Doomgate map may be horrible dancing creatures that spawn in the start area, then move counterclockwise, scoring doom when they reach the lord’s shadow. Other maps offer inspiration for even more strange beings, such as the stone statues that may appear in the cathedral on the dragon’s back or the parasite-like abominations that may have taken residence in the dragon’s innards. Well, you get the idea…
(b) The map-specific demon(s) may appear the first time that all figures of a minion type are already on the map and the rolled despair dice require the placement of more minions of that type (an event which usually increases the doom track by one, as we all know). If the map-specific demon consists in several identical figures, those figures may be placed all at once or in groups, one group for every occurrence of the event described above. 
(c) The map-specific demons may be sold in a single box, similar to the box with the Elder Races for Glorantha:The Gods War. Each demon type would be accompanied by a square carboard tile which fits on the right side of the core box tile summarizing the minions.
(d) From a commercial point of view, everyone who owns the expansions would probably buy the map-demons expansion for spicing up his game, or simply to have a reason for playing the campaign from start to finish another time. On the other hand, those who buy the map-demons expansion would probably buy all the expansions, sooner or later, to make proper use of all the figures in the box.

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LuckyHastur
110 Posts
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July 8, 2020 - 4:47 pm

I dig the idea of map specific monsters, although I think they should make new maps with map specific demons. I immediately thought of a map with a creature that destroys everything in it’s space, including other demons. You could lure it into problem areas to help clear out demons but risk getting a hero killed.

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gilbertguillen
35 Posts
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July 9, 2020 - 3:12 pm

Map Specific demons for PA would be a waste, means a demon that can only be seen in a single map or its useless, it is better to add monster type stuff that can behave depending on the map, it would be a better thing, I know we have 4 new heroes that Sandy posted, plus may be a few new maps with new rules 

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ToeSama
13 Posts
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July 10, 2020 - 12:15 pm

I concur on map demons not being a thing. Now, alternative options for level 1-3 demons? That I’m all for!

 

While I’m here, my wishlist is for new Gifts and Angels to be added in as a type of ‘neutral unit’.

“Efficiunt Daemones, ut quae non sunt, sic tamen quasi sint, conspicienda hominibus exhibeant.” - Lactantius

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LuckyHastur
110 Posts
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July 10, 2020 - 5:28 pm

Alternate Demons would be cool, but I don’t think their should be more angelic presence in the game than there already is. I like that’s it’s mostly background aid to the heroes. 

 

That being said, an Angelic Region could be cool.

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massimocorsi
13 Posts
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July 13, 2020 - 3:48 pm

gilbertguillen said

Map Specific demons for PA would be a waste, means a demon that can only be seen in a single map or its useless, it is better to add monster type stuff that can behave depending on the map, it would be a better thing

  

With a campaign composed of ten maps, I agree with you that introducing 10 different map demons would be a waste. On the other hand, introducing 4-5 new demon figures that enter play and behave depending on the map would be more feasible and would add flavor to the maps. There might be some maps that allow for more than one map demon type, to keep the players on their toes, or maps that require the placement of different map demon types on different paths (example of maps with multiple paths: Moon Base, St.Peter, Washington, etc.). In the current version of the game, the different maps could be described as “the map where demons go from point A to point B”, “the map where demons go from point A to points B, C and D”, “the map where demons go from points B, C, D to point A” and so on. Sometimes it seems more like an exercise in geometry than a sequence of epic struggles against the forces of hell in evocative locations. The epitome of this tendence are the Invasion and Doomgate maps, which are composed by the same two pieces, assembled to for an S in one case and an O in the other. In my opinion, map demons would help making each map unique, as long as only fixed demon types can appear on each map and some map demons don’t appear until the players reach the second half of the campaign.

The addition to each map of a prologue and two epilogues (describing the aftermath in case of success or failure) might help. Think about all the flavor text in the rulebook of Cthulhu Wars and compare it with sentences like “It is by its promise of a sense of power that evil often attracts the weak” or “He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself; and if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss will gaze into you”. I admit that aphorisms are extremely stylish, but they certainly don’t help to set the stage for the ensuing battle!

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massimocorsi
13 Posts
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July 13, 2020 - 3:55 pm

ToeSama said

I concur on map demons not being a thing. Now, alternative options for level 1-3 demons? That I’m all for!

  

The level 1-3 demons have special attacks/abilities that change with the active legion, so you already have many “alternative” 1-3 demons. In PA2, Sandy will surely add a bunch of new legion types, so your desire for more variety when fighting the minions will be fullfilled in spades. Now, if we’re talking about different sculpts for level 1-3 demons, only for eye candy purposes, then I’m in! It would be nice to have also grotesque plastic markers (skull shaped, worm shaped, crown shaped, you get the idea…) for the doom, despair and lord markers. Now they are simply cardboard circles containing the words “Doom”, “Lord” and “Despair”, which are very informative and all, but they certainly don’t improve coolness of the game!

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massimocorsi
13 Posts
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July 13, 2020 - 4:01 pm

LuckyHastur said

Alternate Demons would be cool, but I don’t think their should be more angelic presence in the game than there already is. I like that’s it’s mostly background aid to the heroes. 

What about very powerful, magically empowered troopers that, every time the despair clock hits one, might turn into an invasion token (or in a 4th circle demon?). “Angelic” troopers of this type would be consistent with the game mythology…

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Sandy Petersen
211 Posts
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July 14, 2020 - 10:45 am

Hmm. 

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ToeSama
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July 14, 2020 - 2:41 pm

massimocorsi said
The level 1-3 demons have special attacks/abilities that change with the active legion, so you already have many “alternative” 1-3 demons. 

The legion functions as effects for static units, but having units with different counts, defense values, attack values, or even their own unique effects in place of higher stats would be interesting. The existence of the Legion doesn’t change what one can do with the low tier demons. But all the same…

 

massimocorsi said
What about very powerful, magically empowered troopers that, every time the despair clock hits one, might turn into an invasion token (or in a 4th circle demon?). “Angelic” troopers of this type would be consistent with the game mythology…

I had a neutral kind of unit in mind myself. Something that Heroes could pay Courage to in order to have it not attack them, but would otherwise attack anything in its area, Demon or Hero alike. Probably something that couldn’t be harmed like Demons can. A map hazard in a way.

“Efficiunt Daemones, ut quae non sunt, sic tamen quasi sint, conspicienda hominibus exhibeant.” - Lactantius

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Sandy Petersen
211 Posts
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July 18, 2020 - 12:20 pm

Just FYI I am paying attention to all this at least for consideration. 

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